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als RSS Feed abonnieren📚 I was banned and all my posts deleted by Daniel Micay on his subreddit r/grapheneos only for pointing out his contradictions on Linux
💡 Newskategorie: Linux Tipps
🔗 Quelle: reddit.com
Hi. As you already know, Daniel is the GrapheneOS lead developer and project owner. Despite what he did to me I think he often has some good points about the Gnu/Linux security weaknesses (both the kernel and distributions) though he like bashing on it quite a lot while promoting operating systems like Windows and MacOS as a safer solution. He often tell users to not use Linux (the distribution) and label those who recommend it as misinformed and not competent, because to him Linux is just a security disaster and totally unsafe.
So I replied to him pointing out a tweet made by Moxie Marlinspike who switched from MacOS to Linux for (I guess) practical reasons and a security researcher that works at Google that use...Linux (OS+kernel).
Here is the link of the discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/fwm4d2/comment/fn82xry
In order to show you how he treated me and his bad attitude, I will also attach the entire text so that you can judge on your own why he deleted my posts. I also took some screenshots before he censored my posts in case someone (or Daniel) questions my correctness. Now it's late and it would be an hassle to do that.
OrdinaryEnd9
You have to avoid traditional operating systems including traditional Linux distributions to get decent security.
Hi Daniel. I'm not gonna argue your point, just trying to understand.
If Linux is so insecure, why do respectable security people like Moxie (although he wrote it's bad) or this vulnerability researcher at Google use it?
Is your advice only addressed to non tech people?
DanielMicay
Hi Daniel. I'm not gonna argue with your opinions, just trying to understand.
They're not my opinions. This is the mainstream consensus among security engineers and researchers. I'm giving fact-based information and advice as a security professional. If this isn't the information that you're receiving elsewhere, you're using particularly bad sources that are either poorly informed or dishonest. Most people giving privacy and security advice are primarily pushing their personal preferences and ideology. Few of them are experts on the subject.
I recommend reading https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1248699159911284741 and considering making better choices about where you obtain information and properly vetting those sources.
I don't know where you're getting your information about these things if you aren't hearing about the inherent insecurity and poor design of traditional operating systems. It can't be from good sources.
If Linux is so insecure, why do respectable security people like Moxie (although he acknowledges it's bad) or this vulnerability researcher at Google use it?
This is not logical thinking. What does their operating system choice have to do with the security of the Linux kernel or traditional Linux distributions? It's not relevant. You seem to be misreading what I wrote and you're also using "Linux" is an unclear way. If you say "Linux" like this without context, I have to assume you mean the kernel itself which is certainly a security disaster but it wasn't what I was talking about at all. You should read my countless other posts here or do research based on reliable sources (see above) if you want to know more.
Is your advice only addressed to non tech people?
No, what I was talking about has little to do with whether people are technical.
OrdinaryEnd9
This is not logical thinking. What does their operating system choice have to do with the security of the Linux kernel or traditional Linux distributions? It's not relevant.
It is, for non tech experts at least. A guy that made the most used e2e encryption protocol in this world (WhatsApp/Signal) and a guy that works for Google and finds vulnerabilities for one of the biggest tech company in the world (and therefore your project) can use Linux but we all shouldn't? This seems weird to me. I truly respect your opinions and admire your work but you can't blame people for using Linux if opinions are so divergent even between the tech enterprise community. Your arguments are valid. It just seems to me that you see things too in black and white. No operating system is totally safe, not even yours, so at some point we have to make a trade-off between usability and security. Like Moxie did quitting MacOS (the operating system that you define safer along with Windows) for Linux. Guess he had some valid reasons to do this, didn't he?
you're using particularly bad sources that are either poorly informed or dishonest. Most people giving privacy and security advice are primarily pushing their personal preferences and ideology
I didn't link anyone giving advices and I do not think people like Moxie and that guy working at Google push ideology, if you were referring to them.
You seem to be misreading what I wrote and you're also using "Linux" is an unclear way. If you say "Linux" like this without context, I have to assume you mean the kernel itself which is certainly a security disaster but it wasn't what I was talking about at all.
I was referring to Linux distributions. I thought it was obvious what Moxie was talking about in the link I provided.
You should read my countless other posts here or do research based on reliable sources (see above) if you want to know more.
And I've already read all your posts on the matter. I wouldn't have replied otherwise.
DanielMicay
Moxie is one of the most prominent proponents of what I am talking about above: the insecurity of traditional desktop operating systems, lack of any relevant / functional security model and near total lack of modern privacy/security. It's incredibly offensive for you to be attributing your ignorant opinions to others. So far, your posts are incredibly inaccurate, illogical and downright manipulative with the way that you've misrepresenting other people's views on these topics. You've misrepresented my own statements and opinions and you've done the same with two other prominent security people. I'm not sure why you're claiming that people hold views that are directly contrarian to what they regularly express. You cycle through different strawman arguments and claim that I've said and done things that I never have.
Unless you're going to apologize and retract your mispresentations of other people's statements including my own, you are going to be banned from further participation in this community. Your wasting a substantial amount of time and energy and contributing absolutely nothing with this ignorant, nonsensical drivel. Seriously, just stop before making it worse and wasting even more of my time and energy with this nonsense. People like yourself need to stop causing harm to open source privacy and security projects. Stop wasting developer time and energy with your bullshit.
OrdinaryEnd9
Moxie is one of the most prominent proponents of what I am talking about above: the insecurity of traditional desktop operating systems, lack of any relevant / functional security model and near total lack of modern privacy/security. It's incredibly offensive for you to be attributing your ignorant opinions to others
Never claimed that. I only wrote that he uses Linux despite he acknowlodges it's not good, the opposite of your approach when you write to users "it's trash, don't use it". If we were to be so radical we shouldn't even use your OS because, well...Linux, the kernel, is not totally safe.
Unless you're going to apologize and retract your mispresentations of other people's statements including my own, you are going to be banned from further participation in this community.
And after you tried to divert what I wrote, now that you clearly don't know how to answer you threaten the ban. My compliments Daniel.
DanielMicay
Once again, you're misrepresenting my statements and views. You're continuing to make strawman arguments while claiming that I've said and done things which I haven't. If you ask for advice or information, don't get offended when the answer doesn't fit your fanboy preferences.
Linux, the kernel, is not totally safe.
It's far beyond "not totally safe". It's incredibly insecure. You claim to have done research and reading already but it's very clear that you haven't done it. I can't keep track of what you're actually trying to argue. First you seemed to be using Linux as a synonym for traditional desktop Linux distributions and now you're talking about the kernel. That's why I told you that you needed to clarify what you were talking about in the context of this thread. This thread was not about what you seem to think based on your incomplete skimming and bad assumptions.
your OS
I'd suggest reading https://grapheneos.org/#roadmap and other documentation / responses. GrapheneOS needs to tackle this massive problem. It's fully acknowledged a massive issue and limitation on the project. Please educate yourself on these topics and on GrapheneOS before trying to argue. I'd also suggest posting somewhere that it's not completely off-topic and irrelevant to the thread.
I cannot understand why you are posting any of your nonsense here. This thread had no comparisons between Linux-based operating systems and Windows/macOS and there was no recommendation to use them over Linux-based operating systems. Also, Linux-based operating systems are very diverse and obviously don't all qualify as the traditional desktop operating systems that I was talking about above. Your responses here simply don't make any sense. The motivation for you to respond and argue doesn't make sense as it's completely off-topic and irrelevant to the discussion.
And after you tried to divert what I wrote, now that you clearly don't know how to answer you threaten the ban. Great attitude Daniel, great.
You've behaved in a dishonest and manipulative way. Your lack of awareness of that contributes further to my thinking that you aren't capable of participating constructively in this community. I didn't try to "divert" what you wrote and as you've continued now this path we've reached the inevitable conclusion and the end of your short and unconstructive participation in this community. Your legacy is wasting substantial time and energy of an open source privacy and security developer. The harm you've caused by taking away from development is measurable. So much for that respect that you claim to have for my work.
I'm not sure how you could possibly think that posting this totally off-topic nonsense in this thread was sensible. One more troll interested in creating drama and causing trouble banned from participating in the community. Bye!
DanielMicay
It is, for non tech experts at least.
No, it has nothing to do with you not being a tech expert. You're using completely illogical, irrational thinking processes. You've misinterpreted what I wrote above and are giving a completely nonsense, irrational response to something that I didn't actually write.
People using an operating system to get work done is not an endorsement of that operating system's security. I don't understand how you're getting from one point to another. It simply doesn't make sense. It isn't a valid or relevant response to what I wrote or what I've written here in the past about these topics. It's fallacious nonsense and doesn't belong here.
I can only assume that you're trying to troll because the claims that you're trying to make are so ill informed and illogical that I cannot believe it's written in good faith. Further posts from you down this road will result in a ban from the subreddit. What you are doing is simply wasting time and is not welcome in this community.
for using Linux
Once again, as I pointed out above already, you have totally misinterpreted what I wrote. You're making strawman arguments against something I didn't write. As I suggest in my previous comment, read it again and stop misinterpreting what I wrote.
if opinions are so divergent even between the tech enterprise community
You haven't identified any divergent opinions. You're trying to make an argument based on an argument to authority that doesn't even exist. Those people hold the same views about this that I do. I don't know why you're trying to bring them up as people who hold different views when they don't. You're just wasting my time with your total nonsense arguments pulled out of thin air. You need to stop.
I didn't link anyone giving advices and I do not think people like Moxie and that guy working at Google push ideology, if you were referring to them.
You're putting words in my mouth and the same for them. You're claiming that they have views which they don't have.
And I've already read all your posts on the matter. I wouldn't have replied otherwise.
You haven't even read and understood the post here that you started replying to so I think you need to start over.
DanielMicay
Do you realize that your posts have no relevance to this thread or the comment that you're replying to? This thread is not about Linux distributions compared to macOS and Windows. I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish here. You're trying to make a completely off-topic argument by making strawman arguments and misrepresentations of other people's views to justify your ignorance and yet it has no relevant to the thread. What the hell are you trying to accomplish if not trolling?
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