Deepseek R1 vs OpenAI o1

Deepseek R1 is out - available via . If you are following LLM/Gen AI space you've likely seen titles, read posts, or watched videos praising the model: 671B MoE model, open weight, lots of info on training process. It challenges OpenAI's reasoning models (o1/o1-mini) across many benchmarks at a fraction of a cost... There are even smaller "distilled" versions of R1 available for the local run (via llama.cpp/ollama/lmstudio etc.).

I have been stress-testing models with simulates multiple games of a random bot playing against an LLM. Thousands of prompts, millions of tokens, every game is unique (unlike most evals which have fixed sets of prompts/pass conditions). Several metrics are collected and aggregated across multiple runs. The performance of a model is evaluated in reasoning (% of Wins/Draws) and steer-ability/durability (how often a model fails to follow instructions or drops out of the game due to multiple erroneous replies).

Reasoning Models

Before o1, LLMs couldn’t beat a random player in chess. GPT-4o? Zero wins. Claude 3.5 - Zero. They’d either collapse early or drag games into a 200-move game limit (with an automatic Draw assigned).

Then came o1. OpenAI’s "reasoning" models broke the record:

• o1-preview: 46.67% wins


• o1-mini: 30% wins

Other "reasoning" models? After the o1 release in late 2024 came the controversy around OpenAI's secrecy... The hidden "reasoning" tokens discussion (invisible yet billed) and how some people were banned since OpenAI suspected they tried to crack their secrets. At the time we have seen attempts to reproduce the success of o1 with AI labs introducing "reasoning" models. E.g. Qwen's QwQ, Sky T1. Even Google released their experimental Gemini Thinking model in December 2024.

None of the alternative "reasoning" or "thinking" models came close to OpenAI models - they struggled even with basic instruction following drowning in verbosity, dropping out of the game loop after just a few moves: games lasted for 2 to 14 moves on average. Take for example a non-reasoning old and out-of-fashion GPT-4 Turbo which lasted on average 192 moves (before losing to the random Player due to a checkmate :).

Those late-2024 non-OpenAI reasoning models happened to be surrogates. This has set my expectations of R1 low...

R1

Deepseek's reasoning model turned out to be a real deal. It did score a meaningful number of wins while maintaining a reasonable number of mistakes.

Mistakes - # of LLM erroneous replies per 1000 moves

R1 did good, but not great. Pay attention to how few Draws it had compared to o1 models. That's due to R1 breaking the protocol, violating prompt instruction, OR hallucinating illegal moves (and hence scoring a loss). It struggles with the instruction following and is susceptible to prompt variations falling out of the game loop randomly.

For reference here are the top non-reasoning models as of January 2025:

Reasoning Models - a League of their Own

Besides a significant number of wins, the reasoning models maintained a positive average material difference. Material count in a chess game is a weighted score of all the pieces (i.e. a Pawn being 1 unit of material and a Queen being 9). The eval calculates the difference in material at the end of each game - if a player loses more pieces than it captures, the difference will be negative. Other non-reasoning models (and reasoning "surrogates") typically have their material diff negative or around 0 (if they fail to progress in the game breaking the loop).

Here's the number for average material diff at the end of the game:

Distilled R1

I have also tested a few quantized versions of Distilled R1. What Deepseek did was fine-tune several smaller (70B, 14B, 8B etc.) Qwen 2.5 and Llama 3.1 models are using the outputs of the full-size R1 model. Supposedly they should have gained reasoning skills. There's also a special <think></think> section in the output keeping all the reasoning tokens isolated for the final answer (something important yet missing from earlier thinking models).

Yet they also seem to be thinking surrogates:

Besides, I have notices these modelled sometimes failed to properly open and close the think tags (missing the openinig <think>).

P.S>

Google has also dropped an update to Gemini Thinking the day after the R1 release!

It did much better than the December version! At least it is now steerable and can last at least 40 moves in a game. They have also added the separation of the thinking part not bloating the response with the reasoning tokens. Yet, it is also a thinking surrogate...

Curiously, mot of the game drop out due to server error (e.g. some copyright filters) OR getting empty completions - there're definitely stability issues with the model.